Hi everyone, I had this idea that since we are probing QEMU binaries for devices using 'qom-list-types', we could store that data in the capabilities and check whether device models are supported before starting QEMU. We do that for _some newer_ devices, but this would be global. It would help out particularly with devices like the following one, for example: <interface type='network'> <source network='default'/> <model type='non-existing_device'/> </interface> where we simply construct QEMU command-line with that device model and it then properly errors out: error: internal error: process exited while connecting to monitor: qemu-system-x86_64: -device non-existing_device,...: Parameter 'driver' expects device type This would be easy to achieve with current data unless there are some models hidden from qom-list-types' output. I hope there are none.

When I checked the output of 'qemu-kvm -device \?', the devices listed there are separated into categories and have buses assigned to them and that lead me to another idea. What if that data is added to qom-list-types' output and used in libvirt as well? We could then solve another annoying cases like misusing devices or plugging them into unsupported buses. Although I don't know any person who would do such a thing, even when solving the first idea, there'd still be a possibility to do a thing like: <interface type='network'> <source network='default'/> <model type='AC97'/> </interface> This idea is obviously meant for the QEMU driver, but if there's something similar in other drivers, it might be useful as well. I'd be interested in any feedback and welcome any ideas to whether it is useful, how the storing should be done or even if it's something we want to have or not.

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 07:16:44AM +0200, Michal Privoznik wrote: >On 22.10.2014 13:58, Martin Kletzander wrote: >>Hi everyone, >> >>I had this idea that since we are probing QEMU binaries for devices >>using 'qom-list-types', we could store that data in the capabilities >>and check whether device models are supported before starting QEMU. >>We do that for _some newer_ devices, but this would be global. It >>would help out particularly with devices like the following one, for >>example: >> >><interface type='network'> >> <source network='default'/> >> <model type='non-existing_device'/> >></interface> >> >>where we simply construct QEMU command-line with that device model and >>it then properly errors out: >> >>error: internal error: process exited while connecting to monitor: >>qemu-system-x86_64: -device non-existing_device,...: Parameter >>'driver' expects device type >> >>This would be easy to achieve with current data unless there are some >>models hidden from qom-list-types' output. I hope there are none. > >Well, this may vary among distros. While one distro lives with bleeding >edge, the other may just backport some patches. Even those adding new >devices. So I wouldn't rely on that. > I don't quite get what you mean. We'd be still compatible with old QEMU binaries that don't provide the data. >> >>When I checked the output of 'qemu-kvm -device \?', the devices listed >>there are separated into categories and have buses assigned to them >>and that lead me to another idea. What if that data is added to >>qom-list-types' output and used in libvirt as well? We could then >>solve another annoying cases like misusing devices or plugging them >>into unsupported buses. Although I don't know any person who would do >>such a thing, even when solving the first idea, there'd still be a >>possibility to do a thing like: >> >><interface type='network'> >> <source network='default'/> >> <model type='AC97'/> >></interface> >> >>This idea is obviously meant for the QEMU driver, but if there's >>something similar in other drivers, it might be useful as well. >> >>I'd be interested in any feedback and welcome any ideas to whether it >>is useful, how the storing should be done or even if it's something we >>want to have or not. > >So do you suggest that the check should be done on domain startup or >domain define time? It can't be the latter - libvirt should expose all >the domains it knows of - even these that can't be started. The idea >was, users can downgrade qemu and libvirt should cope with that. >If you, however, intend to do this at runtime, I see this as a gap in >our capabilites querying/checking. Or am I missing something here? > Wherever the capabilities are checked now. Of course you cannot do this when defining the domain. This would be just an additional check when building the command line. And the gap is what I'm suggesting to fix. Just to be clear, the only output of such patches would be a nicer error message without relying on starting QEMU, nothing more.

On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 11:17:48AM +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: >On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 12:15:24PM +0200, Martin Kletzander wrote: >>On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 07:16:44AM +0200, Michal Privoznik wrote: >>>On 22.10.2014 13:58, Martin Kletzander wrote: >>>>Hi everyone, >>>> >>>>I had this idea that since we are probing QEMU binaries for devices >>>>using 'qom-list-types', we could store that data in the capabilities >>>>and check whether device models are supported before starting QEMU. >>>>We do that for _some newer_ devices, but this would be global. It >>>>would help out particularly with devices like the following one, for >>>>example: >>>> >>>><interface type='network'> >>>> <source network='default'/> >>>> <model type='non-existing_device'/> >>>></interface> >>>> >>>>where we simply construct QEMU command-line with that device model and >>>>it then properly errors out: >>>> >>>>error: internal error: process exited while connecting to monitor: >>>>qemu-system-x86_64: -device non-existing_device,...: Parameter >>>>'driver' expects device type >>>> >>>>This would be easy to achieve with current data unless there are some >>>>models hidden from qom-list-types' output. I hope there are none. >>> >>>Well, this may vary among distros. While one distro lives with bleeding >>>edge, the other may just backport some patches. Even those adding new >>>devices. So I wouldn't rely on that. >>> >> >>I don't quite get what you mean. We'd be still compatible with old >>QEMU binaries that don't provide the data. >> >>>> >>>>When I checked the output of 'qemu-kvm -device \?', the devices listed >>>>there are separated into categories and have buses assigned to them >>>>and that lead me to another idea. What if that data is added to >>>>qom-list-types' output and used in libvirt as well? We could then >>>>solve another annoying cases like misusing devices or plugging them >>>>into unsupported buses. Although I don't know any person who would do >>>>such a thing, even when solving the first idea, there'd still be a >>>>possibility to do a thing like: >>>> >>>><interface type='network'> >>>> <source network='default'/> >>>> <model type='AC97'/> >>>></interface> >>>> >>>>This idea is obviously meant for the QEMU driver, but if there's >>>>something similar in other drivers, it might be useful as well. >>>> >>>>I'd be interested in any feedback and welcome any ideas to whether it >>>>is useful, how the storing should be done or even if it's something we >>>>want to have or not. >>> >>>So do you suggest that the check should be done on domain startup or >>>domain define time? It can't be the latter - libvirt should expose all >>>the domains it knows of - even these that can't be started. The idea >>>was, users can downgrade qemu and libvirt should cope with that. >>>If you, however, intend to do this at runtime, I see this as a gap in >>>our capabilites querying/checking. Or am I missing something here? >>> >> >>Wherever the capabilities are checked now. Of course you cannot do >>this when defining the domain. This would be just an additional check >>when building the command line. And the gap is what I'm suggesting to >>fix. Just to be clear, the only output of such patches would be a >>nicer error message without relying on starting QEMU, nothing more. > >If we can get better error reporting of devices that QEMU does not >support, when we start QEMU that is a win for me. QEMU has a really >awful error message for devices that don't exist. > Yes, because it thinks the device name is a parameter because no such device exists or something like that. Thanks for that, I'll definitely try to come up with a unified solution. However, my question extends to the second use case, which is even more corner-case (I really don't think anyone is going to try that and bug us about it), but I want to make sure, does it make sense to extend qemu's qom-list-types with device category (and supported buses) only so we can error out with: Not supported: Cannot use AC97 as an interface model. instead of: error: internal error: process exited while connecting to monitor: qemu-system-x86_64: -device AC97,...: Property '.netdev' not found I, personally, think it is a bit of an overkill. I just want to have more general opinion.