10:36 a.m.
Hi us,
Quick question... the virsh "memtune" command has a parameter called
"--soft-limit".
The draft description for it, for the virsh command reference, is:
Minimum memory allocated to the guest domain during contention,
in kilobytes. QEMU and LXC only.
http://justinclift.fedorapeople.org/virshcmdref/sect-memtune.html
But, Nikunj has pointed out the word "allocated" here isn't correct. His
initial
suggestion is to use "ascertained" instead, but that doesn't sound at all
right to
me:
Minimum memory ascertained to the guest domain during contention,
in kilobytes. QEMU and LXC only.
"Ascertained" doesn't really make sense to me in this context. Wondering
if anyone has better suggestions? :)
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
10:46 a.m.
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On 01/06/11 17:36, Justin Clift wrote:
Hi us,
[...]
"Ascertained" doesn't really make sense to me in this
context. Wondering
if anyone has better suggestions? :)
Hello,
assured/guaranteed? Please please, not ascertained. In the name of all
not-native-English speaking people :)
Z.
- --
Zdenek Styblik
Net/Linux admin
OS TurnovFree.net
email: stybla(a)turnovfree.net
jabber: stybla(a)jabber.turnovfree.net
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10:52 a.m.
On 01/06/2011 09:46 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
On 01/06/11 17:36, Justin Clift wrote:
> Hi us,
[...]
> "Ascertained" doesn't really make sense to me in this context.
Wondering
> if anyone has better suggestions? :)
Hello,
assured/guaranteed? Please please, not ascertained. In the name of all
not-native-English speaking people :)
Guaranteed sounds best to me.
--
Eric Blake eblake(a)redhat.com +1-801-349-2682
Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org
11:13 a.m.
On 07/01/2011, at 3:52 AM, Eric Blake wrote:
On 01/06/2011 09:46 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
> On 01/06/11 17:36, Justin Clift wrote:
>> Hi us,
> [...]
>> "Ascertained" doesn't really make sense to me in this context.
Wondering
>> if anyone has better suggestions? :)
>
>
> Hello,
>
> assured/guaranteed? Please please, not ascertained. In the name of all
> not-native-English speaking people :)
Guaranteed sounds best to me.
Thanks guys, that sounds much better:
Minimum memory guaranteed for the guest domain during contention,
in kilobytes. QEMU and LXC only.
Will update now. :)
1:12 a.m.
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:52:57 -0700, Eric Blake <eblake(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On 01/06/2011 09:46 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
> On 01/06/11 17:36, Justin Clift wrote:
>> Hi us,
> [...]
>> "Ascertained" doesn't really make sense to me in this context.
Wondering
>> if anyone has better suggestions? :)
>
>
> Hello,
>
> assured/guaranteed? Please please, not ascertained. In the name of all
> not-native-English speaking people :)
Guaranteed sounds best to me.
Thats not Gauranteed to the best of my knowlegde
Balbir suggest "enforced", I guessed i dropped it somewhere.
https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2010-August/msg00712.html
Nikunj
3:10 a.m.
On 07/01/2011, at 6:12 PM, Nikunj A. Dadhania wrote:
<snip>
> Guaranteed sounds best to me.
>
Thats not Gauranteed to the best of my knowlegde
Balbir suggest "enforced", I guessed i dropped it somewhere.
https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2010-August/msg00712.html
Balbir's suggested wording (from the email):
"limit to enforce on memory contention"
Does that mean it's the minimum memory "limit" it would really like to
have, but can't guarantee it? (ie it's not guaranteed)
3:33 a.m.
On 01/07/2011 10:10 AM, Justin Clift wrote:
On 07/01/2011, at 6:12 PM, Nikunj A. Dadhania wrote:
<snip>
>> Guaranteed sounds best to me.
>>
> Thats not Gauranteed to the best of my knowlegde
>
> Balbir suggest "enforced", I guessed i dropped it somewhere.
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2010-August/msg00712.html
Balbir's suggested wording (from the email):
"limit to enforce on memory contention"
Does that mean it's the minimum memory "limit" it would really like to
have, but can't guarantee it? (ie it's not guaranteed)
I'm getting a bit confused here. "enforced" really doesn't fit into the
context, or does it?
What should it say/explain? [soft-limit]
Who is target audience?
And I think the last question is very important, because your technical
mambo-jumbo might be just fine and tip-top to the last bit, but if
nobody else understands it, then such help seems to be a bit helpless to
me. Meaning:
* allocated/guaranteed I can imagine;
* ascertained gave me really non-sense translation, although that might
be caused by crappy dictionary;
* enforced - uh ... how? what? when? Is it when host is running low on
memory and/or there are "many" VMs competing for memory? If so, please
explain it somewhere if it isn't already(yeah, I'm trying to figure out
the meaning).
Or what happens when memory reaches 'soft-limit'?
---SNIP---
Soft limit
This limit causes nxqddb to display a warning dialog box(see figure
5.19) if the number of matches found from your search exceeds the
specified limit.
Hard limit
This limit tells nxqddb to abort the search operation if ...
---SNIP---
source ~ http://www.hsdi.com/qddb/usersguide/node37.html
Or got it all wrong(wouldn't be the first time :]).
Take this reply easy as it sounds kind of furious to me.
Zdenek
--
Zdenek Styblik
Net/Linux admin
OS TurnovFree.net
email: stybla(a)turnovfree.net
jabber: stybla(a)jabber.turnovfree.net
3:53 a.m.
CC'ing Balbir..
On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:33:08 +0100, Zdenek Styblik <stybla(a)turnovfree.net> wrote:
On 01/07/2011 10:10 AM, Justin Clift wrote:
> On 07/01/2011, at 6:12 PM, Nikunj A. Dadhania wrote:
> <snip>
>>> Guaranteed sounds best to me.
>>>
>> Thats not Gauranteed to the best of my knowlegde
>>
>> Balbir suggest "enforced", I guessed i dropped it somewhere.
>> https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2010-August/msg00712.html
>
> Balbir's suggested wording (from the email):
>
> "limit to enforce on memory contention"
>
> Does that mean it's the minimum memory "limit" it would really like
to
> have, but can't guarantee it? (ie it's not guaranteed)
I'm getting a bit confused here. "enforced" really doesn't fit into
the
context, or does it?
What should it say/explain? [soft-limit]
Who is target audience?
And I think the last question is very important, because your technical
mambo-jumbo might be just fine and tip-top to the last bit, but if
nobody else understands it, then such help seems to be a bit helpless to
me. Meaning:
* allocated/guaranteed I can imagine;
* ascertained gave me really non-sense translation, although that might
be caused by crappy dictionary;
* enforced - uh ... how? what? when? Is it when host is running low on
memory and/or there are "many" VMs competing for memory? If so, please
explain it somewhere if it isn't already(yeah, I'm trying to figure out
the meaning).
Or what happens when memory reaches 'soft-limit'?
---SNIP---
Soft limit
This limit causes nxqddb to display a warning dialog box(see figure
5.19) if the number of matches found from your search exceeds the
specified limit.
Hard limit
This limit tells nxqddb to abort the search operation if ...
---SNIP---
source ~ http://www.hsdi.com/qddb/usersguide/node37.html
Or got it all wrong(wouldn't be the first time :]).
Take this reply easy as it sounds kind of furious to me.
Zdenek
--
Zdenek Styblik
Net/Linux admin
OS TurnovFree.net
email: stybla(a)turnovfree.net
jabber: stybla(a)jabber.turnovfree.net
2:55 a.m.
* Nikunj A. Dadhania <nikunj(a)linux.vnet.ibm.com> [2011-01-07 15:23:54]:
CC'ing Balbir..
On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:33:08 +0100, Zdenek Styblik <stybla(a)turnovfree.net> wrote:
> On 01/07/2011 10:10 AM, Justin Clift wrote:
> > On 07/01/2011, at 6:12 PM, Nikunj A. Dadhania wrote:
> > <snip>
> >>> Guaranteed sounds best to me.
> >>>
> >> Thats not Gauranteed to the best of my knowlegde
> >>
> >> Balbir suggest "enforced", I guessed i dropped it somewhere.
> >> https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2010-August/msg00712.html
> >
> > Balbir's suggested wording (from the email):
> >
> > "limit to enforce on memory contention"
> >
> > Does that mean it's the minimum memory "limit" it would really
like to
> > have, but can't guarantee it? (ie it's not guaranteed)
>
> I'm getting a bit confused here. "enforced" really doesn't fit
into the
> context, or does it?
>
> What should it say/explain? [soft-limit]
> Who is target audience?
>
> And I think the last question is very important, because your technical
> mambo-jumbo might be just fine and tip-top to the last bit, but if
> nobody else understands it, then such help seems to be a bit helpless to
> me. Meaning:
> * allocated/guaranteed I can imagine;
> * ascertained gave me really non-sense translation, although that might
> be caused by crappy dictionary;
> * enforced - uh ... how? what? when? Is it when host is running low on
> memory and/or there are "many" VMs competing for memory? If so, please
> explain it somewhere if it isn't already(yeah, I'm trying to figure out
> the meaning).
>
> Or what happens when memory reaches 'soft-limit'?
enforced is same as policing or forcing, whether or not the
application likes it. A soft limit is enforced when we hit resource
contention (that is the operating system finds it has to do work to
find free memory for applications), soft limits kick in and try to
push down each cgroup to their soft limit.
--
Three Cheers,
Balbir
7:08 a.m.
On 01/10/2011 09:55 AM, Balbir Singh wrote:
* Nikunj A. Dadhania <nikunj(a)linux.vnet.ibm.com> [2011-01-07
15:23:54]:
[...]
>> Or what happens when memory reaches 'soft-limit'?
enforced is same as policing or forcing, whether or not the
application likes it. A soft limit is enforced when we hit resource
contention (that is the operating system finds it has to do work to
find free memory for applications), soft limits kick in and try to
push down each cgroup to their soft limit.
Such explanation makes more sense to me rather than proposed sentence.
However, there are some critical factors like a] my lack of knowledge on
many libvirt(or virtualization in general) topics b] I'm not a native
English speaker; which may or may not play a role.
--- SNIP ---
A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or
during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to
soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources.
Limit is in kilobytes.
Applies to QEMU and LXC only.
--- SNIP ---
I don't know. This is like 10th version and wow, what a pile of
non-sense I came with :[
Guest memory won't be pushed bellow soft limit, because guest could go
ape(OOMK/whatever) about it and we don't want that.
Could it be understood as resource allocation/reservation like in eg.
VMware ESX? But it might work differently in QEMU/LXC than in VMware.
Anyway, this is probably off-topic here.
I just would go for longer explanation rather than squeezing everything
into 5 words, which seems to be impossible to me, or changing just one word.
~~~ non-relevant part ~~~
Other things I've noticed at the page...
I would change the table to:
Name | Units | Required | Desc |
--hard-limit <limit> | kB | optional | <some description>
Or
Name | Required | Desc |
--hard-limit <limit> | optional | <some descrioption> limit is in kilobytes
Also, I think it should be 'kB' not 'kb' which means
'kilobits'[1]. I
don't want to bitch or anything like that. Please, take it very very
easy. Although, it's explained in description kb is meant as kilobytes
and it might be only me who is used on kb X kB thing. Dunno :\
I would put eg. "QEMU and LXC only" at new line, but this might be
unnecessary(= just a format issue). There also could be special column
'Applies to' and what not(at this point, I feel like I must be really
bored to come up with such stuff; please apply "sftu" if necessary w/o
hard feelings ;] ).
There is also duplication of this info paragraph below in 'Platform or
Hypervisor specific notes', thus if something changes it must be changed
at two places.
Links:
---
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KB
Have a nice day,
Zdenek
--
Zdenek Styblik
Net/Linux admin
OS TurnovFree.net
email: stybla(a)turnovfree.net
jabber: stybla(a)jabber.turnovfree.net
8:07 a.m.
* Zdenek Styblik <stybla(a)turnovfree.net> [2011-01-10 14:08:43]:
On 01/10/2011 09:55 AM, Balbir Singh wrote:
> * Nikunj A. Dadhania <nikunj(a)linux.vnet.ibm.com> [2011-01-07 15:23:54]:
[...]
>>> Or what happens when memory reaches 'soft-limit'?
>
> enforced is same as policing or forcing, whether or not the
> application likes it. A soft limit is enforced when we hit resource
> contention (that is the operating system finds it has to do work to
> find free memory for applications), soft limits kick in and try to
> push down each cgroup to their soft limit.
>
Such explanation makes more sense to me rather than proposed sentence.
However, there are some critical factors like a] my lack of knowledge on
many libvirt(or virtualization in general) topics b] I'm not a native
English speaker; which may or may not play a role.
--- SNIP ---
A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or
during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to
soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources.
Limit is in kilobytes.
Applies to QEMU and LXC only.
--- SNIP ---
Good, well stated IMHO
I don't know. This is like 10th version and wow, what a pile of
non-sense I came with :[
Guest memory won't be pushed bellow soft limit, because guest could go
ape(OOMK/whatever) about it and we don't want that.
Could it be understood as resource allocation/reservation like in eg.
VMware ESX? But it might work differently in QEMU/LXC than in VMware.
Anyway, this is probably off-topic here.
I just would go for longer explanation rather than squeezing everything
into 5 words, which seems to be impossible to me, or changing just one word.
~~~ non-relevant part ~~~
Other things I've noticed at the page...
I would change the table to:
Name | Units | Required | Desc |
--hard-limit <limit> | kB | optional | <some description>
Or
Name | Required | Desc |
--hard-limit <limit> | optional | <some descrioption> limit is in kilobytes
Also, I think it should be 'kB' not 'kb' which means
'kilobits'[1]. I
don't want to bitch or anything like that. Please, take it very very
easy. Although, it's explained in description kb is meant as kilobytes
and it might be only me who is used on kb X kB thing. Dunno :\
I'd agree, conventions need to be properly followed.
I would put eg. "QEMU and LXC only" at new line, but this
might be
unnecessary(= just a format issue). There also could be special column
'Applies to' and what not(at this point, I feel like I must be really
bored to come up with such stuff; please apply "sftu" if necessary w/o
hard feelings ;] ).
There is also duplication of this info paragraph below in 'Platform or
Hypervisor specific notes', thus if something changes it must be changed
at two places.
Links:
---
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KB
Have a nice day,
Zdenek
--
Zdenek Styblik
Net/Linux admin
OS TurnovFree.net
email: stybla(a)turnovfree.net
jabber: stybla(a)jabber.turnovfree.net
--
Three Cheers,
Balbir
11:21 a.m.
On 11/01/2011, at 1:07 AM, Balbir Singh wrote:
* Zdenek Styblik <stybla(a)turnovfree.net> [2011-01-10 14:08:43]:
<snip>
> A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free
resources or
> during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to
> soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources.
> Limit is in kilobytes.
> Applies to QEMU and LXC only.
> --- SNIP ---
Good, well stated IMHO
Thanks Zdenik, sounds like that's a winner. Will use that. :)
(update to be applied soon-ish) ;>
1:40 p.m.
On 11/01/2011, at 12:08 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
--- SNIP ---
A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or
during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to
soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources.
Limit is in kilobytes.
Applies to QEMU and LXC only.
--- SNIP ---
Ok, how's this?
http://justinclift.fedorapeople.org/virshcmdref/sect-memtune.html
Workable? :)
1:49 p.m.
On 01/10/2011 12:40 PM, Justin Clift wrote:
On 11/01/2011, at 12:08 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
> --- SNIP ---
> A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or
> during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to
> soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources.
> Limit is in kilobytes.
> Applies to QEMU and LXC only.
> --- SNIP ---
Ok, how's this?
http://justinclift.fedorapeople.org/virshcmdref/sect-memtune.html
Workable? :)
Rather than "pushed to soft-limit", I'd say "reduced to the
soft-limit".
Other than that, it looked okay to me.
--
Eric Blake eblake(a)redhat.com +1-801-349-2682
Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org
1:55 p.m.
On 11/01/2011, at 6:49 AM, Eric Blake wrote:
On 01/10/2011 12:40 PM, Justin Clift wrote:
> On 11/01/2011, at 12:08 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
>> --- SNIP ---
>> A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or
>> during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to
>> soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources.
>> Limit is in kilobytes.
>> Applies to QEMU and LXC only.
>> --- SNIP ---
>
> Ok, how's this?
>
> http://justinclift.fedorapeople.org/virshcmdref/sect-memtune.html
>
> Workable? :)
Rather than "pushed to soft-limit", I'd say "reduced to the
soft-limit".
Other than that, it looked okay to me.
Thanks Eric, changing now, then will push to the main site's version.
7:10 a.m.
On 10/01/2011, at 7:55 PM, Balbir Singh wrote:
enforced is same as policing or forcing, whether or not the
application likes it. A soft limit is enforced when we hit resource
contention (that is the operating system finds it has to do work to
find free memory for applications), soft limits kick in and try to
push down each cgroup to their soft limit.
Ok. Balbir, what's a good "verbose" description for this parameter to the
mem-tune command then?
Not looking for a terse 1 liner here, but instead a proper explanation and description of
what the --soft-limit options does.
It will be used to replace the existing text for it in the Virsh Command Reference pages:
http://libvirt.org/sources/virshcmdref/html/sect-memtune.html
The options for other commands have been most copied from the virsh help commands output,
but only because we needed to start with
something. Doesn't mean we want to keep with the terse format. :)
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15 comments
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participants (5)
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Balbir Singh -
Eric Blake -
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Nikunj A. Dadhania -
Zdenek Styblik