[libvirt] Need a better word than "allocated" or "ascertained"
Hi us, Quick question... the virsh "memtune" command has a parameter called "--soft-limit". The draft description for it, for the virsh command reference, is: Minimum memory allocated to the guest domain during contention, in kilobytes. QEMU and LXC only. http://justinclift.fedorapeople.org/virshcmdref/sect-memtune.html But, Nikunj has pointed out the word "allocated" here isn't correct. His initial suggestion is to use "ascertained" instead, but that doesn't sound at all right to me: Minimum memory ascertained to the guest domain during contention, in kilobytes. QEMU and LXC only. "Ascertained" doesn't really make sense to me in this context. Wondering if anyone has better suggestions? :) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/06/11 17:36, Justin Clift wrote:
Hi us, [...] "Ascertained" doesn't really make sense to me in this context. Wondering if anyone has better suggestions? :)
Hello, assured/guaranteed? Please please, not ascertained. In the name of all not-native-English speaking people :) Z. - -- Zdenek Styblik Net/Linux admin OS TurnovFree.net email: stybla@turnovfree.net jabber: stybla@jabber.turnovfree.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEUEARECAAYFAk0l8e0ACgkQ8MreUbSH7in+ewCYtReP1GHSLzWzcVRU7SDBqbSo FQCfbQ1KCpo6SiEUVJubhnTAPUDxjfQ= =tqT+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 01/06/2011 09:46 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
On 01/06/11 17:36, Justin Clift wrote:
Hi us, [...] "Ascertained" doesn't really make sense to me in this context. Wondering if anyone has better suggestions? :)
Hello,
assured/guaranteed? Please please, not ascertained. In the name of all not-native-English speaking people :)
Guaranteed sounds best to me. -- Eric Blake eblake@redhat.com +1-801-349-2682 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org
On 07/01/2011, at 3:52 AM, Eric Blake wrote:
On 01/06/2011 09:46 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
On 01/06/11 17:36, Justin Clift wrote:
Hi us, [...] "Ascertained" doesn't really make sense to me in this context. Wondering if anyone has better suggestions? :)
Hello,
assured/guaranteed? Please please, not ascertained. In the name of all not-native-English speaking people :)
Guaranteed sounds best to me.
Thanks guys, that sounds much better: Minimum memory guaranteed for the guest domain during contention, in kilobytes. QEMU and LXC only. Will update now. :)
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:52:57 -0700, Eric Blake <eblake@redhat.com> wrote:
On 01/06/2011 09:46 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
On 01/06/11 17:36, Justin Clift wrote:
Hi us, [...] "Ascertained" doesn't really make sense to me in this context. Wondering if anyone has better suggestions? :)
Hello,
assured/guaranteed? Please please, not ascertained. In the name of all not-native-English speaking people :)
Guaranteed sounds best to me.
Thats not Gauranteed to the best of my knowlegde Balbir suggest "enforced", I guessed i dropped it somewhere. https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2010-August/msg00712.html Nikunj
On 07/01/2011, at 6:12 PM, Nikunj A. Dadhania wrote: <snip>
Guaranteed sounds best to me.
Thats not Gauranteed to the best of my knowlegde
Balbir suggest "enforced", I guessed i dropped it somewhere. https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2010-August/msg00712.html
Balbir's suggested wording (from the email): "limit to enforce on memory contention" Does that mean it's the minimum memory "limit" it would really like to have, but can't guarantee it? (ie it's not guaranteed)
On 01/07/2011 10:10 AM, Justin Clift wrote:
On 07/01/2011, at 6:12 PM, Nikunj A. Dadhania wrote: <snip>
Guaranteed sounds best to me.
Thats not Gauranteed to the best of my knowlegde
Balbir suggest "enforced", I guessed i dropped it somewhere. https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2010-August/msg00712.html
Balbir's suggested wording (from the email):
"limit to enforce on memory contention"
Does that mean it's the minimum memory "limit" it would really like to have, but can't guarantee it? (ie it's not guaranteed)
I'm getting a bit confused here. "enforced" really doesn't fit into the context, or does it? What should it say/explain? [soft-limit] Who is target audience? And I think the last question is very important, because your technical mambo-jumbo might be just fine and tip-top to the last bit, but if nobody else understands it, then such help seems to be a bit helpless to me. Meaning: * allocated/guaranteed I can imagine; * ascertained gave me really non-sense translation, although that might be caused by crappy dictionary; * enforced - uh ... how? what? when? Is it when host is running low on memory and/or there are "many" VMs competing for memory? If so, please explain it somewhere if it isn't already(yeah, I'm trying to figure out the meaning). Or what happens when memory reaches 'soft-limit'? ---SNIP--- Soft limit This limit causes nxqddb to display a warning dialog box(see figure 5.19) if the number of matches found from your search exceeds the specified limit. Hard limit This limit tells nxqddb to abort the search operation if ... ---SNIP--- source ~ http://www.hsdi.com/qddb/usersguide/node37.html Or got it all wrong(wouldn't be the first time :]). Take this reply easy as it sounds kind of furious to me. Zdenek -- Zdenek Styblik Net/Linux admin OS TurnovFree.net email: stybla@turnovfree.net jabber: stybla@jabber.turnovfree.net
CC'ing Balbir.. On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:33:08 +0100, Zdenek Styblik <stybla@turnovfree.net> wrote:
On 01/07/2011 10:10 AM, Justin Clift wrote:
On 07/01/2011, at 6:12 PM, Nikunj A. Dadhania wrote: <snip>
Guaranteed sounds best to me.
Thats not Gauranteed to the best of my knowlegde
Balbir suggest "enforced", I guessed i dropped it somewhere. https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2010-August/msg00712.html
Balbir's suggested wording (from the email):
"limit to enforce on memory contention"
Does that mean it's the minimum memory "limit" it would really like to have, but can't guarantee it? (ie it's not guaranteed)
I'm getting a bit confused here. "enforced" really doesn't fit into the context, or does it?
What should it say/explain? [soft-limit] Who is target audience?
And I think the last question is very important, because your technical mambo-jumbo might be just fine and tip-top to the last bit, but if nobody else understands it, then such help seems to be a bit helpless to me. Meaning: * allocated/guaranteed I can imagine; * ascertained gave me really non-sense translation, although that might be caused by crappy dictionary; * enforced - uh ... how? what? when? Is it when host is running low on memory and/or there are "many" VMs competing for memory? If so, please explain it somewhere if it isn't already(yeah, I'm trying to figure out the meaning).
Or what happens when memory reaches 'soft-limit'?
---SNIP--- Soft limit This limit causes nxqddb to display a warning dialog box(see figure 5.19) if the number of matches found from your search exceeds the specified limit. Hard limit This limit tells nxqddb to abort the search operation if ... ---SNIP--- source ~ http://www.hsdi.com/qddb/usersguide/node37.html
Or got it all wrong(wouldn't be the first time :]).
Take this reply easy as it sounds kind of furious to me.
Zdenek
-- Zdenek Styblik Net/Linux admin OS TurnovFree.net email: stybla@turnovfree.net jabber: stybla@jabber.turnovfree.net
* Nikunj A. Dadhania <nikunj@linux.vnet.ibm.com> [2011-01-07 15:23:54]:
CC'ing Balbir..
On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:33:08 +0100, Zdenek Styblik <stybla@turnovfree.net> wrote:
On 01/07/2011 10:10 AM, Justin Clift wrote:
On 07/01/2011, at 6:12 PM, Nikunj A. Dadhania wrote: <snip>
Guaranteed sounds best to me.
Thats not Gauranteed to the best of my knowlegde
Balbir suggest "enforced", I guessed i dropped it somewhere. https://www.redhat.com/archives/libvir-list/2010-August/msg00712.html
Balbir's suggested wording (from the email):
"limit to enforce on memory contention"
Does that mean it's the minimum memory "limit" it would really like to have, but can't guarantee it? (ie it's not guaranteed)
I'm getting a bit confused here. "enforced" really doesn't fit into the context, or does it?
What should it say/explain? [soft-limit] Who is target audience?
And I think the last question is very important, because your technical mambo-jumbo might be just fine and tip-top to the last bit, but if nobody else understands it, then such help seems to be a bit helpless to me. Meaning: * allocated/guaranteed I can imagine; * ascertained gave me really non-sense translation, although that might be caused by crappy dictionary; * enforced - uh ... how? what? when? Is it when host is running low on memory and/or there are "many" VMs competing for memory? If so, please explain it somewhere if it isn't already(yeah, I'm trying to figure out the meaning).
Or what happens when memory reaches 'soft-limit'?
enforced is same as policing or forcing, whether or not the application likes it. A soft limit is enforced when we hit resource contention (that is the operating system finds it has to do work to find free memory for applications), soft limits kick in and try to push down each cgroup to their soft limit. -- Three Cheers, Balbir
On 01/10/2011 09:55 AM, Balbir Singh wrote:
* Nikunj A. Dadhania <nikunj@linux.vnet.ibm.com> [2011-01-07 15:23:54]: [...]
Or what happens when memory reaches 'soft-limit'?
enforced is same as policing or forcing, whether or not the application likes it. A soft limit is enforced when we hit resource contention (that is the operating system finds it has to do work to find free memory for applications), soft limits kick in and try to push down each cgroup to their soft limit.
Such explanation makes more sense to me rather than proposed sentence. However, there are some critical factors like a] my lack of knowledge on many libvirt(or virtualization in general) topics b] I'm not a native English speaker; which may or may not play a role. --- SNIP --- A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources. Limit is in kilobytes. Applies to QEMU and LXC only. --- SNIP --- I don't know. This is like 10th version and wow, what a pile of non-sense I came with :[ Guest memory won't be pushed bellow soft limit, because guest could go ape(OOMK/whatever) about it and we don't want that. Could it be understood as resource allocation/reservation like in eg. VMware ESX? But it might work differently in QEMU/LXC than in VMware. Anyway, this is probably off-topic here. I just would go for longer explanation rather than squeezing everything into 5 words, which seems to be impossible to me, or changing just one word. ~~~ non-relevant part ~~~ Other things I've noticed at the page... I would change the table to: Name | Units | Required | Desc | --hard-limit <limit> | kB | optional | <some description> Or Name | Required | Desc | --hard-limit <limit> | optional | <some descrioption> limit is in kilobytes Also, I think it should be 'kB' not 'kb' which means 'kilobits'[1]. I don't want to bitch or anything like that. Please, take it very very easy. Although, it's explained in description kb is meant as kilobytes and it might be only me who is used on kb X kB thing. Dunno :\ I would put eg. "QEMU and LXC only" at new line, but this might be unnecessary(= just a format issue). There also could be special column 'Applies to' and what not(at this point, I feel like I must be really bored to come up with such stuff; please apply "sftu" if necessary w/o hard feelings ;] ). There is also duplication of this info paragraph below in 'Platform or Hypervisor specific notes', thus if something changes it must be changed at two places. Links: --- [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KB Have a nice day, Zdenek -- Zdenek Styblik Net/Linux admin OS TurnovFree.net email: stybla@turnovfree.net jabber: stybla@jabber.turnovfree.net
* Zdenek Styblik <stybla@turnovfree.net> [2011-01-10 14:08:43]:
On 01/10/2011 09:55 AM, Balbir Singh wrote:
* Nikunj A. Dadhania <nikunj@linux.vnet.ibm.com> [2011-01-07 15:23:54]: [...]
Or what happens when memory reaches 'soft-limit'?
enforced is same as policing or forcing, whether or not the application likes it. A soft limit is enforced when we hit resource contention (that is the operating system finds it has to do work to find free memory for applications), soft limits kick in and try to push down each cgroup to their soft limit.
Such explanation makes more sense to me rather than proposed sentence. However, there are some critical factors like a] my lack of knowledge on many libvirt(or virtualization in general) topics b] I'm not a native English speaker; which may or may not play a role.
--- SNIP --- A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources. Limit is in kilobytes. Applies to QEMU and LXC only. --- SNIP ---
Good, well stated IMHO
I don't know. This is like 10th version and wow, what a pile of non-sense I came with :[ Guest memory won't be pushed bellow soft limit, because guest could go ape(OOMK/whatever) about it and we don't want that. Could it be understood as resource allocation/reservation like in eg. VMware ESX? But it might work differently in QEMU/LXC than in VMware. Anyway, this is probably off-topic here.
I just would go for longer explanation rather than squeezing everything into 5 words, which seems to be impossible to me, or changing just one word.
~~~ non-relevant part ~~~ Other things I've noticed at the page...
I would change the table to:
Name | Units | Required | Desc | --hard-limit <limit> | kB | optional | <some description>
Or
Name | Required | Desc | --hard-limit <limit> | optional | <some descrioption> limit is in kilobytes
Also, I think it should be 'kB' not 'kb' which means 'kilobits'[1]. I don't want to bitch or anything like that. Please, take it very very easy. Although, it's explained in description kb is meant as kilobytes and it might be only me who is used on kb X kB thing. Dunno :\
I'd agree, conventions need to be properly followed.
I would put eg. "QEMU and LXC only" at new line, but this might be unnecessary(= just a format issue). There also could be special column 'Applies to' and what not(at this point, I feel like I must be really bored to come up with such stuff; please apply "sftu" if necessary w/o hard feelings ;] ). There is also duplication of this info paragraph below in 'Platform or Hypervisor specific notes', thus if something changes it must be changed at two places.
Links: --- [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KB
Have a nice day, Zdenek
-- Zdenek Styblik Net/Linux admin OS TurnovFree.net email: stybla@turnovfree.net jabber: stybla@jabber.turnovfree.net
-- Three Cheers, Balbir
On 11/01/2011, at 1:07 AM, Balbir Singh wrote:
* Zdenek Styblik <stybla@turnovfree.net> [2011-01-10 14:08:43]: <snip>
A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources. Limit is in kilobytes. Applies to QEMU and LXC only. --- SNIP ---
Good, well stated IMHO
Thanks Zdenik, sounds like that's a winner. Will use that. :) (update to be applied soon-ish) ;>
On 11/01/2011, at 12:08 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
--- SNIP --- A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources. Limit is in kilobytes. Applies to QEMU and LXC only. --- SNIP ---
Ok, how's this? http://justinclift.fedorapeople.org/virshcmdref/sect-memtune.html Workable? :)
On 01/10/2011 12:40 PM, Justin Clift wrote:
On 11/01/2011, at 12:08 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
--- SNIP --- A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources. Limit is in kilobytes. Applies to QEMU and LXC only. --- SNIP ---
Ok, how's this?
http://justinclift.fedorapeople.org/virshcmdref/sect-memtune.html
Workable? :)
Rather than "pushed to soft-limit", I'd say "reduced to the soft-limit". Other than that, it looked okay to me. -- Eric Blake eblake@redhat.com +1-801-349-2682 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org
On 11/01/2011, at 6:49 AM, Eric Blake wrote:
On 01/10/2011 12:40 PM, Justin Clift wrote:
On 11/01/2011, at 12:08 AM, Zdenek Styblik wrote:
--- SNIP --- A soft limit is enforced when host is running short on free resources or during resource contention. Guest's resources are then pushed to soft-limit as an attempt to regain free resources. Limit is in kilobytes. Applies to QEMU and LXC only. --- SNIP ---
Ok, how's this?
http://justinclift.fedorapeople.org/virshcmdref/sect-memtune.html
Workable? :)
Rather than "pushed to soft-limit", I'd say "reduced to the soft-limit". Other than that, it looked okay to me.
Thanks Eric, changing now, then will push to the main site's version.
On 10/01/2011, at 7:55 PM, Balbir Singh wrote:
enforced is same as policing or forcing, whether or not the application likes it. A soft limit is enforced when we hit resource contention (that is the operating system finds it has to do work to find free memory for applications), soft limits kick in and try to push down each cgroup to their soft limit.
Ok. Balbir, what's a good "verbose" description for this parameter to the mem-tune command then? Not looking for a terse 1 liner here, but instead a proper explanation and description of what the --soft-limit options does. It will be used to replace the existing text for it in the Virsh Command Reference pages: http://libvirt.org/sources/virshcmdref/html/sect-memtune.html The options for other commands have been most copied from the virsh help commands output, but only because we needed to start with something. Doesn't mean we want to keep with the terse format. :)
participants (5)
-
Balbir Singh -
Eric Blake -
Justin Clift -
Nikunj A. Dadhania -
Zdenek Styblik